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There is no such thing as Syrian
Kurdistan: Syrian opposition Arab leader Burhan
Ghalioun
17.4.2012
By Rudaw |
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Syrian opposition Arab leader Burhan Ghalioun, the leader of the Syrian National
Council (SNC). Photo: Reuters. See Related Links
The issues of federalism and
autonomy should not be talked about right now in any
way. The Kurdish parties in Syria have some views
that do not match the reality of Syria.
April 17, 2012
ERBIL-Hewlêr,
Kurdistan region 'Iraq', — In this interview with
Rudaw, the leader of the Syrian National Council (SNC)
Burhan Ghalioun says all Syrian parties acknowledge
that great injustice has been done to Kurds in Syria
over the decades, but that federalism for Kurds in
that country is not and has never been on the agenda
of the Syrian opposition. Ghalioun says Kurds will
enjoy their rights in a future democratic system in
Syria, but that there is no such thing as Syrian
Kurdistan.
Interview by Sirwan Heji Berko
Q: The Kurdish
National Council (KNC) demands the right to
self-determination for the Kurdish people in Syria.
That is a solution that is close to federalism and
is what currently exists in the Kurdistan Region of
Iraq. What do you have to say about their demand?
Burhan Ghalioun:
Since we formed the Syrian National Council (SNC)
and held talks with a large number of Kurdish groups
and figures, we have not talked about federalism.
That has not been part of our discussions. We
believe Syria’s situation is different from Iraq’s.
This has not been a point of discussion over the
past 10 years in the front and coalitions parties,
in which Kurdish parties have participated. This
issue has not been on the agenda and Kurds have also
not demanded talks on this … Kurds have always asked
for recognition of their ethnic rights, as an ethnic
group different from others in Syria. Kurds have
asked for equal rights because a policy of
discrimination and marginalization has been
implemented over the past decades. A great injustice
has been done to Kurds and all Syrian parties
acknowledge that.
Another point Syrian political parties and
democratic movements accept is the recognition of
the national identity of Kurds. I say the Syrian
state and the political rulers must provide the
conditions for protecting this identity. The right
to education in Kurdish and developing Kurdish
culture and literature, as the second culture in
Syria, must be provided. The third point has to do
with the right to have a decentralized
administrative system. Unlike the current regime,www.ekurd.net
which applies a strong centralized system whereby
all people have to go to Damascus for work, we will
create a decentralized system. In that system, the
provincial and city councils in Syria will have a
broad range of authority so that they can control a
great part of their areas. A real democratic system
in Syria can provide equality for all citizens,
including all ethnic and religious groups.
Q: Will you
recognize autonomy for the Kurdish people in Syria?
Burhan Ghalioun:
There is no region in Syria that is 100 percent
populated by Kurds. We are talking about self-rule
in the regions. The administrative powers of the
regions allow anybody to have power, whether Kurdish
or not. For example, in an area such as Jezira, we
cannot create a system that prevents the
participation of the non-Kurds in administering the
area. We should not remove one injustice and
introduce another.
Q: Even if not
in the political sense, will you accept the term
“Syrian Kurdistan” in a geographical sense?
Burhan Ghalioun:
No, there is no such thing as Syrian Kurdistan. This
is duplicating Iraq’s experience. In Syria, there is
an area where the majority of the population is
Kurdish. In some cities, Kurds constitute the
majority but there is no region or area called
“Kurdistan.” Syria is Syria. As an area, (the
Kurdish area) it is called Jezira. It has been
called the same throughout history … Kurds do not
only exist in Jezira, but also in Damascus, where
there is a significant number of them. They are
present in Aleppo and Afrin as well. So, Kurds are
everywhere. The term (Kurdistan) that is now being
talked about did not exist in history and has not
been mentioned in the literature of the Kurdish
parties. This is all duplicating the experience of
Iraq in Syria.
The Kurdish parties in Syria have some views that do
not match the reality of Syria. The Kurdish history
in the pre-Baath era was different from that of the
Baath era. Kurds were a main component of the state
and were partners in building the new state of
Syria. There were Kurdish historians, intellectuals,
a prime minister and a renowned military commander
in Syria. Kurds do not live in ghettoes. Kurds are
not separate from the Syrian people in general. They
are not different from other citizens in Syria. This
feeling emerged under the Baath, because the Baath
Party really pursued a discriminatory, racist and
marginalizing policy against the Kurds. But that is
not the real history of Kurds in Syria. Kurds occupy
a great position within the real history of Syria.
I hope Kurds will abide by these memories because
they really assisted in building the state. Kurds
should not be taken over by the illusion of
federalism because it will not benefit anybody and
will cause a misunderstanding on the other side. It
will further isolate Kurds. It will appear as if the
Kurds are demanding secession, which we know is not
true. So, why should doubt be instilled in the minds
of others? The parties that present this project do
not serve the interests of the Kurdish people in
Syria.
Q: A few months
ago, you made a secret visit to Erbil at the helm of
the SNC delegation and you met with Kurdistan Region
President Massoud Barzani. What did he ask of you
and what did you ask of the Kurdistan Region?
Burhan Ghalioun:
We had common views. At the time, we said there were
three points on our agenda: 1) Genuine equality and
the elimination of injustices against Kurds and
compensating them. 2) Guaranteeing the cultural and
national rights of the Kurdish people, i.e. the
right to identity, education in Kurdish and
assisting the development of Kurdish culture and
literature in Syria. 3) Recognizing a system of
administrative decentralization in all the areas of
Syria, among them the areas mostly populated by
Kurds.
President Barzani said at the time that he supported
our views and described it as a just project. He
said there was no reason to have Iraq’s experiment
duplicated in Syria. Before that, we had discussed
these two points with him in Rome and we went to
Erbil based on that. President Barzani and other
government officials received us very warmly and
there was full consensus among us over these three
points. We went to Erbil based on these points and
the Kurdish National Council needed to merge with
our council. Abdulhakim Bashar, then head of the
Kurdish National Council, received us. He came with
us to the Friends of Syria conference in Tunis. He
acted as a member of the executive committee of the
Syrian National Council. He was sitting to my left
at the conference. We met together with the foreign
ministers of several countries, including Hillary
Clinton, the U.S. secretary of state.
I don’t understand the change in Mr Barzani’s
position now. He told the newspaper Al-Hayat that as
long as the rights of the Kurdish people are not
recognized in Syria, Kurdish parties will not be
part of the Syrian National Council. Mr Barzani has
not talked to us about a different vision regarding
those rights. We do not know what his current vision
is for Kurdish rights. If it is about returning to
the idea of federalism, we will say that for the
time being this is not part of our agenda as the
Syrian National Council.
It is not our right to decide on federalism because
we would be violating the right of the Syrian
people. Only an elected parliament can decide on
federalism or autonomy. It would be wrong to make
such a decision now. We are not the representatives
of the Syrian people. We only represent their wish
to get rid of the current regime. We cannot
confiscate the will of the Syrian people about the
country’s future. In the future, Kurdish parties in
Syria will have the right to demand what they want.
But the deep feeling I get from Syrian youth is the
wish to be together and discover their Syrian
identity. Before being Turkish, Iraqi or Kurdish,
they are Syrian.
The issues of federalism and autonomy should not be
talked about right now in any way … In my opinion,
the broad participation of Kurds in the revolution
and their coordination with opposition groups will
strengthen their future position when it comes to
demanding rights and a bigger role in Syria, not
only in the areas where they form the majority, but
in all of Syria.
Q: Some analysts
believe that the chance of bringing down the Assad
is slim without the participation of the Kurdish
political movement. The Kurdish National Council
also says the U.S. will not support the SNC if it
does not recognize Kurdish rights.
Burhan Ghalioun:
The Syrian National Council said in a statement, and
reiterated at the Tunisia conference, that it will
constitutionally recognize the Kurdish national
identity in Syria and the need to eliminate
persecution against Kurds. It recognizes Kurdish
national rights within the framework of the
territorial integrity and unity of the Syrian
people. We do not need to repeat that because it is
part of the documents of the Syrian National
Council. But I will rephrase your question in a
different way: Will Kurds accept the regime being
brought down without their participation? Aren’t
Kurdish people now part of the revolution? Does the
position of Kurdish parties toward the opposition
determine the participation of Kurdish youth in the
revolution?
Kurdish youth have been taking part in the
revolution since day one. They played a major role
in raising the flame of revolution. The Kurdish
youth can never be far from the revolution. No
matter what the position of the Kurdish parties, I
have great faith in Kurdish youth. This is not only
the Arabs’ revolution, but the revolution of Kurds,
Assyrians and others as well. But it especially
belongs to the Kurds because they have been
persecuted more than others.
Q: How do you
see the position of the parties in the Kurdistan
Region and the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) toward
the Syrian regime?
Burhan Ghalioun:
It is clear so far that the PKK’s position is closer
to the regime. But I believe the parties in the
Kurdistan Region are with the revolution. And there
is no reason for them to be against it. We know that
in Ocalan’s party, there are elements who have not
yet cut off their line of communication with the
Assad regime.
Q: As an
intellectual, aren’t you afraid of the power of
Islamists in the “new Syria”?
Burhan Ghalioun:
The Syrian regime spreads that fear about Islamists.
We do not need to magnify it. Some of those who do
not want to take part in the revolution or some
countries that do not want to assist the revolution
say such things. Eighty percent of those who have
taken to the streets do not have any links with
political parties, neither the Muslim Brotherhood
nor others. What is being spread now is part of the
fight against the revolution. In the executive
committee of the Syrian National Council, out of 12
members, only two of them belong to the Muslim
Brotherhood. The regime and those who are not taking
part in the revolution spread such rumors … Syria is
not Egypt or any other country. I do say
categorically that there is no threat of an Islamic
government in Syria. You see that people have taken
to the streets in a civic way, using slogans
demanding democracy and freedom.
Q: What are the
guarantees that the future system of rule in Syria
will be a secular, democratic one?
Burhan Ghalioun:
There is no need to talk about this issue, not
because I say so, but because Syria needs such a
system of rule. The Syrian people will not accept an
Islamic, Afghanistan-like system, that is to say a
system that imposes views on people about religion
and religious thinking. People have died and shed
their blood for freedom, the freedom of opinion and
choice. Those who do not have their freedoms
guaranteed will become slaves. No religious movement
can impose itself on the Syrian people.
Q: The Kurdish
National Council is now waiting to attend the
Friends of Syria conference to be held in Paris, so
that their demands will be accepted. What is your
opinion about that?
Burhan Ghalioun:
If they make this issue into an unpleasant
situation, they will harm the Kurdish people and the
Syrian people. They will then show that they demand
the partitioning of Syria or aim to undermine its
territorial integrity, and this will not be in the
Kurds’ interests. Besides the two points I mentioned
above, there is going to be nothing else. We said
that in Erbil and will repeat it in Paris as well.
We must strengthen the concept of unity among the
Syrian people. The current talk of federalism will
weaken the revolution and divide the Syrian people.
And this will be in the interests of the regime.
Today, our main task is bringing the regime down,
not dividing the state. If we are busy dividing up
the state before the regime has collapsed, then we
will be making a mistake with regards to our rights
as Kurds, Arabs and Syrians. And if the situation is
made tense in a way that leads to a Kurdish-Arab
conflict, then we will plunge ourselves and the
revolution into a complicated problem that we do not
need in any way.
Q: The Kurdish
political movement in Syria says that Turkey has
affected your stance toward the Kurdish issue in
Syria and that is why you do not accept the Kurdish
demands.
Burhan Ghalioun:
That is not true. It is hard to have Turkey agree on
our solution to the Kurdish issue in Syria. There is
no state or party who has set the bar higher than
the Syrian National Council when it comes to
resolving the Kurdish issue.
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