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Interview with Syrian Kurdish politician
Mish'al at-Tammo
21.7.2011
Kurdwatch |
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Mish'al at-Tammo: All of our actions should be aimed
at the fall of the regime
July
21, 2011
QAMISHLI, Syrian Kurdistan,— Mish'al at-Tammo
(b. 1957) in conversation with Kurdwatch on the role
of the Kurdish opposition in the revolution.
At-Tammo is speaker for the Kurdish Future Movement
in Syria. In May 2009 he was
sentenced to a
prison term of three and a half years for political
reasons. In June 2011, he was released from prison
ahead of schedule [Kurdwatch reported]. The Future
Movement supports the anti-regime demonstrations and
calls for the end of the Ba'th regime.
Q:
Demonstrations against the regime have been taking
place in Syria since the middle of March. More than
1,500 people are dead and over 10,000 have been
arrested. Where is Syria heading?
Tammo: The
actual number of dead and imprisoned may well be
much higher. We are dealing with a police state. The
number of victims of state aggression is not made
public. There are myriad missing persons and I am
afraid that many of them are dead. We know that this
regime has mass graves to answer for — after its end
we are sure to find out many new and appalling
things about the way the police state functioned.
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Mish'al at-Tammo, Kurdish activist and politician,
speaker for the Kurdish Future Movement in Syria. |
But regardless of what happens, the majority of the
population has made their decision. They want
freedom, and they will be successful in getting it.
The regime can kill, can imprison thousands, can
plunder cities or level the earth. But it can no
longer prevent the population from deciding upon a
change in regime.
Q: For a long time one didn´t hear
anything from the opposition parties in the country.
Only in the last two weeks have they begun to
organize themselves. Why is that?
Tammo: We must
not forget that the Syrian regime has fought these
opposition parties for the last 45 years. It took
away the opposition´s freedom of movement. The
Syrian opposition has up until now only worked
illegally and for this work its members have been
persecuted and arrested. The opposition has no
experience with legal activities. We live in a
country in which a single party has the say and in
which diversity of opinion is suppressed. The
opposition parties have experienced many defeats.
Many of their members were in prison for years or
had to leave the country. Under these conditions
opposition work was difficult. The opposition is
thus very weak. Only now are its members learning to
communicate with one another. The people are also
just now learning to express their opinions and to
respect differing opinions. Because of these
conditions it has taken a while before the
opposition has come to reorganize itself. At the
same time,www.ekurd.netthere
is a new generation of young people in Syrian
society who do not share the same fears as the older
generation. These young people will build the new
Syria.
Q:The opposition
parties are not only weak, but also fragmented. In
the last weeks there have been various meetings in
the country and abroad, in Antalya among other
places, which many opposition parties in Syria have
boycotted. On June 27, a coalition of eight Arab and
five Kurdish parties was formed, but other
groupings, such as those of the Damascus
Declaration, have kept their distance from the
alliance. And finally you, along with other
personalities, have founded a committee to organize
a national conference. How can the estranged
opposition be brought together?
Tammo: All of
that is true. Nonetheless, all of these meetings and
formations of groups are necessary and appropriate
at this time. We have to figure out who can be
worked with and who can not, and we also have to
consider how the new Syria will look after the
change in regime. We need a new constitution; we
need to re-determine our relationships abroad, and
much more. The entire opposition is working in this
direction. It may be that some groups have problems
with one another, but one thing brings them all
together: the wish to be free. The coalition founded
by me and others should be preparing for a national
rescue conference*. This conference should become an
alternative to the regime. In our coalition parties
are scarcely represented, but rather predominantly
young people, who are leading the Syrian revolution.
Because of this I believe that we could bring many
opposition groups together. Certainly not all of
them will take part, but the most important will,
including several Kurdish parties, groups from the
Damascus Declaration and many others. Together we
will advance the revolution. We are united by the
facts that we do not want to deal with this regime
and that we see us as an alternative to the ruling
government. We want to talk openly with one another
about the new Syria. A civil, democratic Syria
should be built, in which the different ethnicities
will be granted their rights. Our meetings are open
to all who share these goals. The sessions will not
take place in secret. Everyone should be able to
take part in the discussion.
Q: Other than
the young activists, most of the opposition parties
have not demanded the resignation of the regime
until now. How do you want to bring these people to
the table if the end of the regime is one of your
essential goals?
Tammo: Day by
day those who demand the resignation of the regime
become more numerous. The more people the government
murders and imprisons, the more opposition parties
and politically unorganized Syrians are going to
demand the resignation of the government. More and
more people believe that this government has lost
any and all legitimacy. Hardly anyone still wants to
deal with this regime.
Q: Are there
already plans for the time after Bashar al-Assad?
Has the Syrian opposition been working on concepts
such as a new constitution or new party and
organization laws?
Tammo: On this
point the entire opposition is united: there must be
a new constitution. This constitution should be a
mirror of the cultural diversity of the Syrian
people. Laws must be developed for parties, voting,
the press, and so on. These are foundations of a
modern civil state. I believe, those groups who want
a modern and civil democratic state will win out.
The first step in this direction is a new
constitution.
Q: How does the
Syrian opposition view the relationship between the
state and religion?
Tammo: Whether
we like it or not: the majority of Syrian society is
religious. Religious, but not radical. The successes
of Erdoğan have influenced the people more than
anything else. The people and the groups we want to
organize the national rescue conference with would
like to show that their religion is open to other
ideas and notions. We want a new, progressive
constitution; religion should play a subordinate
role.
Q: Europe and
the USA have been reluctant to talk about sanctions
against Syria. Why?
Tammo: They are
afraid that after a change in regime, chaos could
break out. They fear a civil war or other
disturbances. The Syrian government has fed many of
these fears and even spread propaganda that the
entire Middle East could sink into chaos if the
government of Bashar al-Assad goes. The more time
passes, the more the West will arrive at the view
that a change in regime will contribute not only to
the stability of Syria, but to that of the entire
region. Criticism of the regime will grow in the
same way.
Q: What should
Europeans and Americans do in the current situation?
Tammo: They can
do a lot. They can impose an economic embargo und
exercise much more political pressure. They can
support the opposition. We do not want military
intervention from abroad; we will solve the problem
ourselves. But Americans and Europeans can, with a
correct assessment of the situation, clear words and
unequivocal sanctions, contribute to a situation
where the regime no longer kills people
indiscriminately.
Q: If a change
in regime comes, what will relations with Israel
look like? How is the Golan question to be handled?
It is often to be heard from the opposition that
Syria has served the interests of Israel and not
fired on Golan in 40 years. Does this mean that the
opposition wants to fight a war over Golan?
Tammo: No. The
current opposition wants peace and the Golan
question must also be resolved peacefully. There
must be an internationally observed peace treaty. We
no longer wish to exploit this conflict for
propaganda in order to distract us from our real
problems. We earnestly want to address the internal
problems of Syria.
Q: Turkey, and
above all prime minister Erdoğan, is exercising the
most pressure on Syria at this time. There are
voices arguing that Turkey could establish a safety
zone for Syrian refuges along the Syrian side of the
mutual border. What does the opposition mean?
Tammo: Turkey
has its own interests and wants to play a new and
important role in the Middle East. It wants to
become a power in the region; it is also because of
this that she represents a clear position. The
Turkish government does not want to repeat the
errors of the past and has positioned itself on the
side of the Syrian population. At the same time we
realize that Turkey has engaged itself more strongly
before the elections than after. We hope that
engagement in favor of the the population increases
again. We share a border of approximately 800 km
with Turkey and when you consider that, it´s very
understandable that the recent events in Syria
should be of importance to Turkey as well. Kurds
live on the Syrian and on the Turkish side of the
border; the Turkish government wants no additional
problems there. Turkey also wants to play a role in
the transitional phase because of this. In terms of
the safety zone, without a UN resolution such a
thing is difficult to put into effect. Such a safety
zone cannot be an unilateral effort on the part of
the Turkish government; it must be supported by the
world community. We hope, however, that it does not
go that far at all and that the populace brings down
the regime before.
Q: For more than
three months, the Syrian security forces have been
killing demonstrators. In Hama some even fear a
repetition of the events of 1982. How much longer
can it go on like this? Could it come to civil war?
Tammo: The
events of Hama will not be repeated. We live in
different times. Today the populace is on the
barricades across Syria, not just in one city.
Another question is central: How long will the
Syrian military participate in the murder of
peaceful demonstrators? Soldiers have already been
leaving the army and are no longer ready to open
fire on the populace. If it goes on like this much
longer, the army will disintegrate. Right now there
are demonstrations in all fourteen provinces. The
army can kill ten, twenty people daily and arrest
200 but they still won´t silence the populace in
this way.
Q: What role did
the hunger strike of the prisoners in March 2011in
the ʿAdra Prison, in which you participated, play
for the revolution?
Tammo: The
hunger strike was certainly a trigger for the
nation-wide demonstrations. The political situation
was such that it required only a spark in order for
the population to express its discontent. We were
aware of this and we wanted to perform our part.
When we began the hunger strike, we had only one
goal: to incite the populace to rise against the
regime.
Q: The
established opposition parties hardly seem to play a
role in the demonstrations. Rather it's
predominantly young people who mobilize over the
Internet. How is it that the parties are holding
back?
Tammo: We
shouldn´t forget that many of the young activists
are also members of the established opposition
parties. Nonetheless it´s correct that the parties
are not playing the leading part. The parties must
mobilize more strongly for the revolution. We must
work toward that. The young people who are leading
the revolution are well networked and well
organized. They are very motivated, work very
professionally and know exactly what they want. They
have decided that this regime must go; this is the
goal they are working for.
Q: Up until now
it´s been assumed that the best organized opposition
forces are the Kurdish parties and that they will
take over an important role in the downfall of the
regime. In reality this has so far not been the
case. You yourself have not yet called for people to
attend demonstrations. Why?
Tammo: That´s
unfortunately true. The Kurdish opposition was the
best organized opposition group in Syria and it was
also very active in terms of party politics. Right
at the beginning of the revolution, the Kurdish
parties could have taken on an important role, but
they missed this chance. On the one hand the regime
treated the Kurds very deftly, on the other hand
several Kurdish party officials have contributed to
the weakness of the Kurdish opposition. Several
Kurdish parties still don´t have any clear position
in relation to the regime. Some still have the
perception that it would perhaps be better after all
to talk to the regime. That naturally weakens the
demonstrations in the Kurdish areas and as a
consequence proportionally fewer Kurds go into the
streets. That doesn´t mean that the Kurds won´t get
their rights in the new Syria. The Kurdish youth
have actively participated and performed an
important service for the entire Syrian revolution.
We — the Future Movement, the Kurdish Freedom Party
in Syria [Azadî] and the Kurdish Union Party in
Syria [Yekîtî] — have participated in the
demonstrations from the beginning onward and will
also always be there in the future. Our young
members demonstrate just like the young members of
other parties and independent protesters. We have,
as everywhere in Syria, consciously made the
decision that the young people should take over the
organization of the demonstrations. The Future
Movement, the Azadî and Yekît have already organized
demonstrations in Syria when no one else dared to
protest publicly. We are glad that our young people
are now taking on an important role.
Q: Are the
Kurdish and also the Arabic opposition hiding behind
these young people? You want to shape the future of
the country, but you're holding back in a critical
phase of the revolution, leaving all of the
responsibility to the young people. Isn´t that a
contradiction?
Tammo: For us as
Future Movement it´s not a contradiction. We
participate in the demonstrations. The three parties
which I have named could, with no further ado,
release a declaration and call upon people to
demonstrate. We don´t do it because we want our
young people to become active and come to a decision
independently of us. We show them respect.
Q: The Future
Movement has removed itself from the grouping of the
twelve Kurdish parties because it was of the opinion
that the other parties are too hesitant in
supporting the revolution. What is the Future
Movement now doing differently than these parties?
Tammo: We left
the grouping because of the position of some parties
vis-a-vis the regime. They wanted to meet with the
government and conduct negotiations. We declined to
do that, and said instead that you simply cannot
speak with a regime that kills its own population.
The idea of beginning a conversation with the
government is still consistently advanced by some of
the Kurdish parties. We have different political
ideas. We can work only with those groups which
decline to converse with the government. All of our
actions should be aimed at the fall of the regime.
We say that completely openly. We have the same
position in this affair as the young people in the
street. Most Kurdish parties don't represent this
position. There are political differences.
Right now we Kurds, parties and other social groups,
should play an important role in this significant
phase of the revolution. We can only do so if we
represent a consistent position and engage ourselves
more strongly in the revolution. We are working on
achieving this goal. Aside from this, we are active
on the Syrian level. We have to assert ourselves as
Kurds and defend our interests as a distinct people.
Today the path of the future is being laid.
Q: Is the
position of the Kurdish parties being weakened by
the fact that they aren´t participating actively in
the demonstrations and thus in the revolution?
Tammo: Naturally
their position is being weakened. Their position is
so weak because several Kurdish parties are still
not adopting a clear stance toward the regime. Not
only do they not support the revolution, they even
work against it.
Q: How is it
that everywhere in Syria demonstrators are being
fired upon, except in the Kurdish areas?
Tammo: The
regime has already had experience with us. When
Kurdish demonstrators were fired upon in the Kurdish
areas in 2004, hundreds of thousands of Kurds went
to the streets, in Damascus and Aleppo as well. The
murder of protestors joins people together. The
government knows very well that if a Kurd is killed
in a demonstration in the Kurdish areas, hundreds of
thousands of Kurds will take to the streets. As
fragmented and weak the political groups might be,
in such a situation the Kurds will stick together.
That is the reason why the security forces do not
intervene in demonstrations in the Kurdish areas.
They know that then the Kurds in Damascus and Aleppo
will also demonstrate. They want to avoid that by
all means possible.
kurdwatch.org reports human-rights violations
against Kurds in Syria.
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