Safin Dizai interview: Kurds should be part of tripartite security mechanism  1.6.2007
By Ilnur Cevik - Erbil-Kurdistan

The interview created anger among nationalist circles in Turkey.

He said the media and some political parties in Turkey are actually capitalizing on the current tension between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurds for their own gains. "This is natural for party propaganda but we do not want to be part of this campaign, we do not want to be used for this campaign. We have nothing to do with the internal politics of Turkey."

Dizai who accompanied regional President Massoud Barzani on a European tour that took him to the European Union headquarters said if Turkey addresses the problems of its own Kurds and forges closer ties with the Iraqi Kurds its road to EU membership could be less bumpy. "We feel good ties with Iraqi Kurdistan may smoothen the path for speeding up the process for full membership. We want Turkey to be a EU member because apart from serving the interests of Turkey it will also serve our interests in many aspects. Therefore after the elections we hope Turkey will be able to concentrate on the EU file and that negotiations continue."

He stressed the importance of establishing dialogue between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurds and said Turkey has concerns on Kurdish autonomy, PKK and Kirkuk as well as other issues "but there is no communications to dislodge and alleviate these concerns. Ankara has concerns and I dare say they put it on the table with wrong counterparts."

Dizai stressed the delays in the Kirkuk referendum process should not be deliberate.

Here is the full text of the interview with the KDP official:

Ilnur Cevik- The US is taking a major step by handing over security of Northern Iraq to Peshmerga forces. What will this mean to the region and how will it affect its relations with Turkey?

Safeen Dizai- Luckily the US and the coalition forces are legally responsible for the security file of Iraq. According to an agreement with the Iraqi government once area by area or province by province the security situation has been stabilized and the file on that province can be returned to Iraqi authorities. Now as you know since last year four such provinces have completed this process and the file has been handed back to the local authorities and also the Federal Government in Baghdad. The next step was also to hand over the security files of Erbil, Sulaimaniyah and Duhok to the Regional Authority and obviously to the national government. Having said that it does not mean that in the past the Americans were in practice responsible for security of this region. In theory they were but in practice they weren't because there were no major US troops presence in Erbil Sulaimaniyah and Duhok with the exception of couple offices. But legally they are handing this file back to the Kurdistan Regional Government being the regional authority and of course the Federal Government. This politically means that as time goes by Iraq will become more sovereign and more responsible for its own security and the Kurdistan Regional Government will also have direct responsibility for the security file of the Kurdistan Region or the three provinces.

Cevik- Yes, and what does it mean for Turkey?

Dizai- For Turkey obviously I suppose you mean the pending border security issue. As far as that issue is concerned, there is an ongoing mechanism on the tripartite meeting between Ankara, Washington and Baghdad. This mechanism is still in place. To what extent it has been progressing and to what extent it has been successful, I do not want to comment on that. But it is there and it is in place.

Legally and practically the main interlocutor for this file in actual fact are the authorities in Kurdistan. However, KRG representative is not represented in this tripartite committee. We are not saying that we should add a fourth member to the committee but within the Iraqi representation there should be an official from Kurdistan who knows the situation, who is experienced, who is involved and responds directly to the leadership of Kurdistan. Sadly Turkey has not been looking at this proposal favorably in the past and it seems this is still the case. We hope that can change in the near future and there will be more contacts with Ankara. Already in the social and economic field there is a good deal of cooperation with Turkey and we hope that can be extended to the security field as well. There should be more communication.

Cevik- In the past few days there has been a lot of Turkish press comments about you and about the interview you had on the internet. There are claims that you used strong language against Turkey. What do you say to all this?

Dizai- One has to look at the interview as a whole. I was interviewed by the website known as Nefel. It was mainly about past, present and future relations with Turkey. It was an analytical interview. One of the questions asked was about the talk in Turkey at various levels about a possible cross border operation. I expressed the view that such an operation is not possible, it is not viable, it is not practical and it will not yield results because of the past experienced we have had. One has to think in a practical way and in a pragmatic way. Turkey knows that it is not possible for various reasons. The international community will not support it, the Iraqis will not support it and public opinion in Kurdistan will also not support it. Kurds will not only stand by and watch it. Basically that was the response. Unfortunately the Turkish press took the last bit and treated it as a threat. If you look at the rest of the interview, it is very positive and in the direction of building better ties. I think unfortunately with the political climate in Turkey and sadly with negative attitude of some media circles in Turkey you expect this kind of behavior. Some parties in Turkey are actually capitalizing on the situation for their own gains, may be for the extra votes and using it against the Government. This is natural for party propaganda but we do not want to be part of this campaign, we do not want to be used for this campaign. We have nothing to do with the internal politics of Turkey. We respect the wish of the Turkish people. The Turkish nation will decide on what it wants on July 22. We hope that whoever wins will build good and friendly ties with us.

Cevik- When we talk about the election campaign in Turkey, there was a kind of atmosphere created in Turkey, as if KDP could influence Turkish politics, as if Mr. Barzani, Mr. Talabani could influence Turkish parties or the people in southeastern Turkey. What do you say to that?

Dizai- I think these are just accusations based on wrong analysis. The Turkish public knows their political parties very well. Some of them are well known seasoned politicians.
Some of them are the continuation of parties from the sixties. So I do not think the Turkish public or at least the Kurdish section of Turkish public, needs to be influenced. They are mature enough to make the right decision, vote for the right party whom they think serves their interests. Of course there are certain political parties in Turkey which have adopted a negative attitude towards the Kurdish question in Turkey and not only that, beyond that have adopted a negative attitude towards the Kurds of Iraq. They have been very vocal in their animosity towards the Kurdish people. I think the public will judge all this and decide for themselves. There are more moderate parties that are pragmatic and feel that they have to approach this problem in a right manner. Again it is up to the Turkish public to decide. We do not have a policy of intervention in Turkey and I think we have made this very clear in the past, we make it very clear now and we will stick to this in the future.

Cevik- Are you concerned that the Kurdistan region is turning into an area of refuge for Turkey's Kurdish dissidents?

Dizai- What do you mean by dissidents? There are many Kurdish activists working inside Turkey who are part of the political process. There are academicians and artists. There are also others who work and live in Europe. If you are referring to the PKK that is a different situation. The PKK has been in these parts since it was founded in the 1980s. We never encouraged them to come here. On the contrary we were in conflict with them. The PKK was founded inside Turkey but eventually they ended up in Syria, in Lebanon and some ended up in this region. So their presence does not have our blessing. As you know in the past there have been serious efforts to remove them from our mountains. There have been joint efforts with Turkey but unfortunately those efforts could not succeed. If you refer to the business community the market is open to the Kurdish business community as well as the Turkish business community. There are more than 400 Turkish companies operating here. So I think the idea that the region is becoming a haven for anti-Turkish Kurds or anti-Syrian Kurds or anti-Iranian Kurds is not right. Those who are here are here legally with the knowledge of the authorities. They are not involved in any illegal activities at all. But the PKK is not included in all this. They are not here with our blessing.

Cevik- Is there such a policy where you handover the PKK militants who give themselves up to the authorities?

Dizai- We do not have a policy of handing over anyone to anyone but if any PKK elements or non PKK elements who have left Turkey and now desire to return to Turkey upon their own free will and with the involvement of the ICRC or UNHCR they are more than free to do so. But to handcuff them and turn them over to the authorities has not been the case in the past and will not be the case in the future. But there have been people in the past who have decided to return to Turkey with the knowledge of ICRC or the UNHCR. They have been able to return to Turkey and return to their families, reintegrate into the society and continue with their lives.

Cevik- Recently you accompanied regional President Massoud Barzani to a trip to Europe. You also visited the European Union headquarters and you discussed the Kurdish problem. Do you believe that if Turkey creates a better environment for its own Kurds and also facilitates the Iraqi Kurds better in the future it will have a better chance of entering the EU?

Dizai- I think the road map for Turkey for European Union membership is very clear. The Copenhagen criteria and the review of what has been done is very clear. So obviously when Turkey enters the EU it will be upon the conditions of the EU and not the conditions set by Turkey itself. As far as the Kurdish issue is concerned I am sure if Turkey becomes a EU member the chance of resolving the Kurdish issue will be much easier. It can be resolved through peaceful means and through dialogue. As far as a Turkey's relations with the Iraqi Kurds are concerned it is my understanding that if Turkey enjoys a stable and peaceful relations with all its neighbors including Iraqi Kurdistan this will help to smoothen up the process of membership because if you have a country where there is instability which is threatening its neighbors with cross border operations the chance of membership would be very slim or at least it would create obstacles for its membership. Therefore the EU wants to stable, secure and prosperous Turkey without any internal and external problems. A Turkey that is not being threatened or threatening others. So we feel good ties with Iraqi Kurdistan may smoothen the path for speeding up the process for full membership. We want Turkey to be a EU member because apart from serving the interests of Turkey it will also serve our interests in many aspects. Therefore after the elections we hope Turkey will be able to concentrate on the EU file and that negotiations continue.

Cevik- You have been involved in the dialogue process for all these years. What do you think is the stumbling block for meaningful dialogue between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurds?

Dizai- To answer that question we have to go back at least 15 years to 1991. Between 1991 and 2003 a de facto situation was created in the region which Ankara regarded as temporary. At various levels they were encouraging us that we should maintain our dialogue with Baghdad and to reach an agreement with Baghdad with the former regime. So they saw the situation as a temporary one where sooner or later the central government in Baghdad would regain control of Kurdistan. The national borders would be controlled by Baghdad. The Kurds of Iraq would be given some rights by Baghdad and that is that. Nothing beyond that. Until 2003 we did not have a legal status as such. After 2003 the Kurds did not only gain legal status and gain permanent status but they became key players in Iraq in reshaping the country.
We created a new Iraq. We participated in the democratic process, we were part of the transitional government and we helped in the writing of the constitution. Kurds remained key players in Iraq. This created some concerns and some people in Turkey were unprepared for these changes. Turkey decided not to be a part of this process not being with the Americans who are their allies and not being involved with the Kurds who became key players in Iraq. So they were just standing by and watching things while others had their own agendas. They all had contingency plans while Turkey did not have such a thing. So all of a sudden when all this was happening Turkey became concerned that they were left behind. In order to be a player in this process various pretexts were brought up. Turkey wanted to be in Iraq but did not want to be a part of the coalition force to fight Saddam's Iraqi army. It did not want to confront anyone. Turkey wanted to be in Iraq to have a say in the restructuring of Iraq. Obviously Turkey could not have any of this. Former Foreign Minister Yasar Yakis claimed Turkey wants to be in Iraq to prevent massacres of Turkmens, to prevent exodus of Kurds to Turkey, to prevent Kurds from declaring independence and halt PKK infiltration. But nothing like that happened. None of these pretexts worked. So Turkey tried to create an atmosphere which would enable it to be involved in Iraq but those were not realistic reasons. Ankara still says it is concerned about the creation of an independent state in northern Iraq and they are concerned that Kurds will take control of Kirkuk by the end of the year. They also raise the presence of the PKK in the Kurdistan region. The PKK issue is now actually at the bottom of the list. These concerns are there but there is no communications to dislodge and alleviate these concerns. Ankara has concerns and I dare say they put it on the table with wrong counterparts. We have concerns we want to put on the table but we have no counterpart. At the end of 2004 when Massoud Barzani and Recep Tayyip Erdogan met we had high expectations but things moved in the wrong direction. We still feel there has to be better communications. We may agree and not agree on many things but at least we should identify the areas we agree on and try to strengthen them and work to bridging the gaps on other area.
Anything that is a concern for Turkey we are ready to hear. On the same token we expect Ankara to listen to us about our concerns. It is a two way traffic. We are a part of Iraq. If they want us to be a part of the Iraqi delegation on the security issue we do not have any objections. If they want bilateral ties as we had for 12 years we have no objections to that. But lack of communications and saber rattling from all sides does not help the situation. Although we say we should not use the media as a channel that is what we are doing now. I am trying to send a message to Ankara through your good newspaper which is fine but when it comes to more serious issues we should have a better channel. I have no problem with that. I stayed in Turkey for over eleven years and I have good connections. We want to take our dialogue to a much higher and practical level where by not only talks are held but decisions can be taken.

Cevik- Do you feel a referendum on Kirkuk can be held by the end of the year?

Dizai- It is not a matter of whether a referendum on Kirkuk can take place or not. What matters is that the road map shown in Article 140 of the Iraqi Constitution on Kirkuk should be pursued. It is clear that 30 years of demographic changes and Arabization cannot be reversed in three months. We accept that. But what is important is that there should be no delay in implementing the process and there should be sincerity and seriousness. So long as there is sincerity and seriousness to pursue this road map I think if there are any problems at the technical level they can be overcome. But if there is a deliberate delay in the process this is a totally different thing that will lead to problems.

Cevik- So if there is no delay tactics but the conditions necessitate a delay can this be accepted?

Dizai- This is a technical and legal matter. If the timetable in Article 140 cannot be met then we need time extensions that mean the article has to be amended and this will be a long process. The amendment will have to go to the Parliament and to the Presidential Council and last but not least has to be approved by a referendum. Delays will create more complications.

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