|
JALAL TALABANI: I don't agree with this. I don't
agree at all. I think the liberation of Iraq reduced
the danger of terrorism on the United States of
America because all terrorist groups are now
concentrating on Iraq, focusing in Iraq, sending
their troops to Iraq, busy with Iraq; otherwise
they're concentrating their efforts against the
United States of America.
RAY SUAREZ: So it made America safer, but it made
Iraq more dangerous?
JALAL TALABANI: Well, it made America safer, and it
make Iraq as a country struggling for peace and
democracy in the Middle East under the threat of
terrorism. But it was something normal. After the
collapse of a dictatorship, which was in a good
relation with terrorism, the international terrorism
lost a big friend in Iraq, with Iraqi dictatorship.
They came to revenge and concentrate in Iraq,
preventing the progress of Iraqi democracy,
preventing the democratic process of the Iraqi
people, which will be a great danger on terrorism
all over the area.
The safety of Iraqi civilians
RAY SUAREZ: But if you're just an average Iraqi, a
storekeeper, a housewife, a taxi driver, is Iraq a
more dangerous place to live in today than it was in
2002?
JALAL TALABANI: Which Iraq? If you look to Iraq, you
see many provinces in Iraq now calm, quiet, secure.
We have troubles in three provinces in Iraq. If you
look to that Iraq, Iraq was under the danger of a
dictatorship, which was launching a war of
annihilation against the people. This dictatorship
left behind mass graves, with hundred thousands of
innocent Iraqis who were buried in the desert of
Iraq without any kind of trail.
This dictatorship was a real danger for Iraqi people
of all, especially in the north, against Kurdish
people in Kurdistan, and in the south against Shias.
And even it killed hundreds of Sunni Arabs in Iraq.
The dictatorship was the same time a great threat
for peace and stability in the Middle East. This
dictatorship invade Iran, invade Kuwait, and was
ready to repeat these crimes again. So I think that
liberation of Iraq has been a big, important,
historical achievement for Iraqi people, for Middle
East, and for the peace and stability in the area.
RAY SUAREZ: You say the violence is pretty much
limited to three provinces, but that includes the
capital.
JALAL TALABANI: Yes.
RAY SUAREZ: And in the year since the last time we
spoke, Iraq has had two of its most dangerous months
-- July and August -- for civilians in your country.
Nearly 7,000 were killed.
JALAL TALABANI: Yes, no, I recognize that. There is
still the danger of terrorism. But compared with
last year, it's reduced.
Now many places which were under the control of the
terrorists has liberated. It's now under the control
of Iraqi government. Even in Baghdad, five months
ago, there you had between 10 to 12 car bombs;
nowadays, we have daily between one to two to three
car bombs, which means that the number of car bombs
are reducing.
What we suffering from it is these car bombs and
this assassinations, suicide, then extremists from
both Sunni and Shia groups are -- months ago started
to kill each other. But nowadays, also these crimes
also reduced, and we hope that it will be finished
after the national reconciliation started to go
forward.
Room for only one army in Iraq
RAY SUAREZ: Well, Americans have put more troops
into Baghdad. And some of the battles that are going
on in the capital are between the national army of
your country and militias that are tied to members
of your own cabinet. It's a strange situation.
JALAL TALABANI: You see, we have decided that there
is no room in new Iraq for militia. There will be
only one regular army, which must belong to the
government. Some militia sometimes committing some
kind of violation of law. Iraqi National Guard is
obliged to go to arrest them or to go to punish
them. So this is the reality. But in general, the
main militias are now calm and not acting against
the regime as the terrorists are acting.
RAY SUAREZ: As president, have you been able to push
the prime minister to be more active in trying to
disarm those militias?
JALAL TALABANI: Well, I have complete agreement with
the prime minister. I don't think prime minister is
needed to be pushed. The prime minister is
convinced. He believes that he must stop the
violation of law from everyone, and he must stop the
activities of militias, and he must oblige militias
to obey the law.
So prime minister is not in need to be pushed by me.
I have full trust on him, and I think he is doing
his job very well.
RAY SUAREZ: But, for instance, the party that's tied
to the Mahdi Army also has six members of the
cabinet.
JALAL TALABANI: Three.
RAY SUAREZ: Three, OK.
JALAL TALABANI: Three. They have three members of
the cabinet, and they promise to obey the law. And
Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr, the leader of the Mahdi
Army, also promised that he will avoid any kind of
confrontations with American forces and with Iraq
forces. He ordered his followers to obey the law.
Some people, disorder people, are making sometimes
this kind of violation of law, but in general we
have agreement with the leadership of the Mahdi Army
to stop any kind of interference in internal affairs
of Iraq.
Changing U.S. involvement
RAY SUAREZ: The top commanders of the United States
forces in your country have recently said that they
don't see many troops leaving before next spring.
Does their continued presence also make it more
difficult to calm the country down? That's part of
the debate right now in our country.
JALAL TALABANI: No, I don't think -- I think what
your generals said is correct, perhaps in next
spring they can leave the country gradually, because
until next spring we'll be able to retrain our army,
prepare it for replacing coalition forces.
Now we're starting each month to take responsibility
of the security of one province. We are replacing --
the Iraqi army are replacing the coalition forces in
many places in Iraq. At the end of this year, we
hope that the majority of provinces will be under
the control of Iraqi security forces.
RAY SUAREZ: Because right now we're having an
election in the United States. And there's arguing
between different candidates about what would happen
if we left quickly. Some candidates are saying,
"Let's make a plan and leave, because that will
force the Iraqis to take care of their own country."
While some are saying, "If we leave quickly, we
would leave behind a very dangerous Iraq."
In your view, what would happen if the United States
left quickly?
JALAL TALABANI: Personally, I do not want to
interfere in the debate among Americans. I don't
want to interfere with the internal affairs of the
United States of America.
But I think leaving Iraq without final success will
be catastrophe for American prestige, and influence
in Middle East, and for Iraqi people, and for
democracy and peace in Middle East, will help
terrorism to grow and even to control some places in
the area.
Holding a country united
RAY SUAREZ: You are the president of a unified
country, but you also spent much of your life
struggling for the rights of the Kurds to live in
peace and not be targeted by their own government.
Meanwhile, in your country, people are being even
more, let's say, open about their desire to live on
their own and not take any orders, guidance from
Baghdad. Are you being pulled in two directions?
JALAL TALABANI: I think we achieved our goal, our
aims. Now Kurdish people live in peace, and
stability, and prosperity in the area. They have the
right of federation (inaudible) country,
participating actively in the center of government.
And they are enjoying all democratic rights.
And because the area is calm and quiet, there's
prosperity. There is reconstruction. There is
development of agriculture, of our economy, of
culture, everything. And the Kurds, within the
framework of a united, democratic Iraq, are happy,
they voted for a constitution.
I think there is now a good example in Iraq for
others that a multination can live in peace and
stability if there will be democracy and human
rights and federation for all (inaudible)
RAY SUAREZ: Right now, the parliament is debating a
plan to give a great deal of autonomy to the
different regions, split the country up in
administration. And your own people support that. Do
you discourage it?
JALAL TALABANI: You know, according to the
constitution of Iraq, which was approved by Iraqi
people in a referendum, which more than 10 million
and half a million voted for in, the constitution --
first article say that Iraq is a federative,
democratic, independent, united country. It means
that federation is decide by the constitution.
But how to implement it, how to give rights to the
different parts of Iraq to form regional government?
It is up to the desire of the people of that area.
Now we are Iraqi parliament discussing a law to
formulate this article of constitution to give the
right to people to choose if they want how to rule
in their areas.
RAY SUAREZ: Mr. President, thanks for talking to us
today.
JALAL TALABANI: Thank you.
pbs org
Top |
® 
