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The author of In the Belly of the Green Bird
tells Aljazeera-net that the conflict in Iraq is far
more terrible than reported and could spill over and
threaten the entire Middle East.
Nir Rosen - who speaks Arabic and has Middle Eastern
looks - went to Iraq in April 2003, just days after
Baghdad fell.
Entering mosques and tribal meeting halls, and
afforded access to fighters' secret meetings and
Iraqi homes, he documented the deadly
behind-the-scenes manoeuvring in the post-Saddam
power vacuum.
The freelance journalist's writings have appeared in
The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine, and
Time, among other publications. He is also a fellow
at the New America Foundation.
Aljazeera.net: Let's start with the title of your
book. What is the green bird?
Rosen: When I was in Falluja, and other parts of
Iraq where the resistance was very strong, you would
often hear this quote in mosques, or see it in
resistance propaganda - that the martyrs were in
paradise.
You often saw or heard the statement that the
martyrs die with a smile on their faces, die with
smelling sweet and the martyrs went to paradise in
the bellies of the green bird.
To write your book, you gained access to both Sunni
and Shia resistance more than any other American
reporter. How did you do that?
I have a very good smile (he laughs). I definitely
had more access than many other people. Some of it
was because I am Middle Eastern; my father is
Iranian.
I looked like everybody else which I think is an
important advantage because you get to places more
easily. People don't notice you.
I think it's mainly having the right friends.
Friends from the right Sunni tribes, friends from
the right Shia neighbourhoods who could introduce me
to the right people. You need somebody from the
right tribe, from the right neighbourhood, from the
right sect. More and more, that's what determines
whether you can survive.
Has al-Zarqawi's death impacted the insurgency?
I think it's insignificant. I don't think he was so
important in the first place.
If anything, he was sort of an advertisement. He
came into Iraq to kill infidels and the Shia, become
a martyr and go to paradise. He succeeded.
The Americans created Zarqawi, sort of the Zarqawi
myth. Right at the beginning, they refused to accept
the fact that the Iraqis had liberated or supported
popular resistance so they had to blame everything
around foreign fighters for the sake of the American
[public].
So it seemed for a while like every suicide car
bombs was been blamed on Zarqawi. And I just think
that created a myth throughout the Arab world. It
only helped his cause.
Osama Bin laden recently warned in an internet
message Iraqi Shia of retaliation if they continued
to attack Sunnis. How seriously should we take his
warning?
I don't think Osama bin laden matters much either.
First of all, Iraqi Shia are being killed every day
anyway.
Every day by the end of 2003, they were being
slaughtered on the streets by the resistance and of
course by Zarqawi. But I don't think Osama bin laden
commands any fighters. He is hiding in some cave
somewhere in Pakistan issuing these statements,
trying to sound important but he is not the leader
of anybody anymore. So it's kind of ridiculous.
I didn't see anyone in Iraq take Osama bin laden
seriously. It's definitely true that Shia are
resented because they are perceived as the
beneficiaries of the occupation. And in many ways,
they are in charge now; they control Iraq so
everything has been reversed.
In a recent article, you wrote "The occupation has
been one vast extended crime against the Iraqi
people and most of it has occurred unnoticed by the
American people and the media". Can you explain?
Well Abu Ghraib, Haditha, these are the kind of
things that get attention. These are only two
incidents so they make them seem like the crimes are
exceptions.
In fact the occupation is a daily crime, it is
little Abu Ghraibs, little Hadithas, being forced to
do what the Americans tell you to do. Having
American machine guns pointed at you everywhere,
having American security convoys shoot at you when
you're off the streets, having American tanks block
off your roads, American concrete barriers block off
your city, American helicopters fly over your house,
American soldiers break into your house and raids.
So many little acts and so many innocent Iraqis
killed or arrested or humiliated or terrified.
Probably hundreds of thousands have been traumatised
by this, especially children.
I was "embedded" for two weeks of my entire time in
Iraq but for me that was the most traumatic
experience that I had in Iraq.
Normally, if I'm on the streets and I see someone
pushing an old lady or bullying a child, I'd want to
interfere. But here I was with soldiers and they
were doing the same thing with Iraqis. I would just
stand there and watch and not get involved. And
Iraqis looking at me thinking I was some Iraqi
collaborator and it made me feel even worse.
In a recent Washington post/ABC News poll, nearly
half of all Americans support a timetable for
withdrawal. Do you support a withdrawal?
I supported a withdrawal certainly until 2005. In my
articles, I was saying that an American withdrawal
would prevent a civil war from happening and would
force Sunnis and Shia to step up and take
responsibility and to co-operate. And it would allow
Sunnis to participate in the government.
But now that I think the civil war is sort of open
and intense, I don't think an American withdrawal
would make much difference and it's possible that an
American withdrawal would actually make things worse
because there will be nobody patrolling the borders
and would allow even more foreign fighters to come
into the Sunni areas.
It would allow greater intervention from Iraq's
neighbours which will only increase the civil war. I
think the Americans should leave. The Americans
shouldn't be here occupying Iraq and killing Iraqis
but an American withdrawal wouldn't make things
better at this point because of the civil war.
In your book, you say that Iraq has been in a state
of civil war shortly after the fall of Saddam
Hussein's government. How bleak is the future of
Iraq?
It's more difficult for me to feel more optimistic
because as a journalist on the ground you see the
bloodshed every day. You hear about people getting
killed, people telling you about their neighbours
getting killed; it seems like short-term there is no
hope because I think things still have to get much
worse before they might get better. The process of
ethnic cleansing is only beginning.
I think all mixed areas of Iraq are going to be
unmixed, are going to be cleansed like Bosnia before
this ends. So there's still a lot left to go. I
think Sunnis and Shia hatred at this point in Iraq
are so intense that they are beyond the point of
reconciliation and the fact that the Shia are so
confident because they control the army and the
police. I think you're going to see sectarianism
spreading to the whole region.
Do you think Iraq should be split into three
semi-autonomous provinces?
The Kurds certainly want independence. They don't
feel Iraqi, they don't speak Arabic, they don't want
to belong to Iraq.
When you ask them about the Iraqi flag, they tell
you it is a symbol of their pain. I've never heard a
Kurd express any desire to belong to Iraq. And they
have virtual independence anyway so it's only a
question of time for the Kurds.
But regarding the rest of Iraq, it's much more
complicated because the Sunnis don't want to have
some form autonomous province. They want all of Iraq
just like the Shia want all of Iraq.
Everybody wants Baghdad. Sunnis of course want the
oil and the Sunnis are so mixed that even if you
divide it into autonomous provinces what would you
do with Baghdad and Kirkuk? It would just be as
bloody because most of the bloodshed is happening in
mixed areas. So there's no solution at this point I
think.
How will the war in Iraq impact the Middle East in
the long term?
The idea of a nation might be less important because
you have Sunni Arab tribes in Iraq who have
relatives in Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia and for
them borders were never an issue in the first place.
Once the people start really being victimised by the
Shia, you'll see their relatives coming in larger
numbers to give them more support.
I just don't believe that the Arab world is prepared
to tolerate an aggressive Shia Iraq. We've heard
statements from Saudi leaders, Jordanians and even
from [Egyptian President Hosni} Mubarak warning
about the Shia threat. I don't think you will see a
Shia Iraq, the situation is only going to get worse.
How has the war in Iraq affected you personally?
My journalistic career began at the age of 26 when I
got to Iraq. I'd never been a journalist before. So
everything I've learned in the past three years was
from Iraq.
In some sense, it has made me an angry person. When
I go back to the United States, I feel angry because
people don't know how terrible the situation is.
Is the media to blame?
A little bit. They are too slow to expose America's
crimes and they still are. I mean I was embedded for
two weeks and I saw so many horrible things happen.
There are journalists who have been embedded for
months, for much of the occupation on and off, and
they must have seen things much worse than what I
saw.
And not to write about them and glorify the hometown
heroes from the US is in itself collaborating with
the crime.
aljazeera net
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