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Awsat- How do you think this experience can
be applied in the rest of Iraq?
Barzani -
Regrettably, the deteriorating
security situation in the rest of Iraq and the
federal government's inability to benefit from the
experience of Kurdistan prevented the adoption of
our experience in the other regions. However, all
benefited from the Kurdish experience in holding
elections, establishing a parliament, and bolstering
democratic life. One of the top priorities at
present is providing security. When the federal
government succeeds even relatively in providing
security to the rest of Iraq, the experience of
Kurdistan can then be easily transferred. I,
however, do not think anything can be done under the
current bad security situation. The rest of Iraq can
benefit from all the positive and negative steps
taken here in Kurdistan, but who benefits from this
experience? Some may imagine that they are larger,
more important, and richer in experience than us.
Others are determined not to benefit from our
experience. They consider benefiting from this
experience an attempt to detract from their
importance. They wonder how the Kurds can have a
successful experience while they do not. There are
some who think in this narrow-minded way and there
are others who want to benefit from this experience
but cannot do so.
Awsat- Even the experience you had in the
field of security was not utilized in the rest of
Iraq.
Barzani -
We made large efforts to apply our
experience in the rest of Iraq. Even during the
Iraqi opposition conference in London in December
2002, we adopted the policy of national
reconciliation and avoided being dragged behind
retaliation and revenge. The secret of our success
lies in our liberation from the complexes of revenge
and the culture of revenge. We adopted the policy
and culture of toleration and national
reconciliation. This led to our current situation in
Kurdistan. Regrettably, the brothers in the rest of
Iraq did not learn the lesson. Instead of adopting
the culture of tolerance and reconciliation, they
adopted the culture of revenge.
Awsat- Are you satisfied with the makeup of
the Iraqi Government?
Barzani -
I cannot say it is an ideal
government, but I do not think it is possible to
form a better government under the current
circumstances.
Awsat- Why did you not nominate a Kurd for
the interior portfolio in order to convey
Kurdistan's successful experience in the field of
security to the rest of Iraq?
Barzani -
There is regrettably intense
sensitivity toward the implementation of this idea.
A Kurdish interior minister will certainly be
neutral and apply the law thoroughly, but he will
still be accused of being biased to a certain side
or of committing crimes against this sect or that
party. Take for example what happened in Al-Fallujah.
The Kurds did not take part in the Al-Fallujah
battle, but the Iraqi Army had some Kurds in its
formations. They were there just like the Arabs, but
there was a hue and cry over this issue. The Kurds
were accused of entering Al-Fallujah and killing the
Arabs. Kurds within the Iraqi units participated
with the other units in attacking a site or mosque
in which there were terrorists or weapons. I do not
exactly know what was there. Others then said the
Kurds attacked a Shiite mosque. We will support the
interior minister and the implementation of law. We
will support the concerned services but no Kurd will
be in charge of the Interior Ministry because a
Kurdish minister will be accused of being biased and
of harming the Arabs no matter how much he succeeds
in his work or how well he serves the people.
Therefore, we rejected this idea. We are ready to
help the federal government succeed in its work. We
extended and will continue to extend all the support
it and any ministry needs through our specialized
and qualified people. The past circumstances were
not encouraging. We can provide the Interior and
Defense Ministries with successful cadres, but let
the minister be a non-Kurd as the Kurds will be an
object of accusation.
Awsat- Why do the Kurds not rule Iraq and
implement their experience so that the situation
will stabilize in the rest of the country. They can
then hand this job over to others. Why do you not do
so, especially since you are Iraqis and the
president of the republic is an Iraqi Kurd?
Barzani -
Actually, we want to emphasize that
the new situation in Iraq means the birth of a new
Iraq. A Kurd can now assume any post. He is not a
second or third degree citizen as he was viewed in
the past. The Kurds are ready to extend any service
to Iraq, but others may not think the way you think.
Awsat- How do you view the issue of the Iraqi
people's acceptance of a Kurdish president like
Jalal Talabani?
Barzani -
I think this is a successful and
good experience. This enhances Iraq's situation and
position and strengthens Iraq.
Awsat- In view of your success in building
Kurdistan and in view of the presence of investors
and diplomatic delegations, do you object to
declaring Erbil an economic or cultural capital of
Iraq?
Barzani -
We have no objection. On the
contrary, I think that during the monarchy and even
the republican era, a decision was made considering
Erbil the second capital of Iraq.
Awsat- But that did not materialize.
Barzani -
Of course, it did not, but Erbil is
ready to perform its duty toward Iraq and to help
stabilize the situation in Baghdad.
Awsat- You called on the Arab League to hold
a national reconciliation conference in Erbil. Why
do you not call for holding an Arab summit in
Kurdistan? Kurdistan is an Iraqi territory and Iraq
will thus get what it is entitled to.
Barzani -
The Arab League representative
visited me and we spoke about the conference that
will be held in Baghdad. He talked about obstacles
and the security situation. Therefore, I expressed
the Kurdistan Region's willingness to host the
conference if necessary. As for inviting the Arab
leaders to attend an Arab summit conference here in
Kurdistan, this is difficult. They do not come to
Baghdad, so how do you expect them to come to Erbil?
Awsat- But Erbil is safer than Baghdad.
Barzani -
This is true, but security is not
the reason why they do not come to Baghdad. I think
the reasons are political. Security can be provided
to any president or king who comes to Baghdad.
Things have not reached the limit of not being able
to provide them with security. If they do not come
to Baghdad, how can they come to Erbil?
Awsat- How are your relations with the Arab
countries?
Barzani -
Our relations are good. We tried
and exerted efforts to build good relations with all
Arab countries. Some of them responded while others
responded only slightly. Some still have no
relations with us, but we have relations with
several Arab countries.
Awsat- Do you think some Arab countries fear
the democratic experience in Kurdistan?
Barzani -
A large number of countries in the
region fear the democratic experience in Iraq. Some
of them do not know the true situation in Kurdistan.
There are still some who imagine that the Kurds came
from abroad and occupied the land of others. The
truth is quite the opposite. The others were the
ones who occupied our land. This policy has proven
its failure.
Awsat- Do you fear real threats to the
Kurdistan Region from the neighboring countries?
Barzani -
The region's situation is linked to
the Iraqi situation. We cannot isolate ourselves
from what takes place in the rest of Iraq. What
happens in Baghdad also reflects on us negatively or
positively, but the situation in the Kurdistan
Region is different. There is real national unity
that is getting stronger day after day. There are
services which watch over security in the Kurdistan
region. In the meantime, we did not and will not
create any problem to our neighbors or interfere in
their affairs. There is a big chance for all parties
to build the best possible economic and trade
relations between us. Therefore, I hope there will
be no problems or threats.
Awsat- Has any country asked to open a
consulate in Kurdistan?
Barzani -
There are many offers to do so from
several countries. Some of them have already opened
consulates in Kurdistan while others are on their
way to do so.
Awsat- Do these include Arab countries?
Barzani -
No, I do not think so. All the
consulates which were opened or will be opened
belong to western countries.
Awsat- How do you view the Kurdish
aspirations for a greater Kurdistan?
Barzani -
This is an important and sensitive
issue. The Kurdish people are a nation. The Kurds
are a nation which was exposed to a large injustice
throughout history. This nation was not asked if it
wanted independence or annexation with this or that
country. This nation was also not given its right to
self-determination. The Iranian and Ottoman empires
partitioned Kurdistan about 500 years ago. Then the
allies came after their victory in World War I and
partitioned Kurdistan the way it is currently
partitioned. This partitioning, of course, gave
every part of Kurdistan its special character, but
it is the legitimate right of the Kurdish nation to
be united and to build its independent state. We at
the same time must be realistic and know that
achieving this at present is difficult. We call for
a peaceful democratic solution to the Kurdish issue
in every part of Kurdistan and in accordance with
the special character of this or that part. As for
the issue of uniting the Kurdish nation and
establishing the state of Kurdistan, this is a
natural legitimate right.
Awsat- What assurances do you have that your
political experience in Kurdistan has succeeded?
Barzani -
We in Kurdistan have resolved all
thorny issues and laid the foundation for a strong
national unity and for educating the people
continuously about this unity. If any political
leadership one day thinks of taking an action which
we feel might lead to internal strife or
encroachment on the unity, freedom, and rights of
citizens, our constitutional and legal institutions,
which we are building now, will rebel against any
such action.
Awsat- If your legitimate ambition to
establish your Kurdish state in the future is
fulfilled, how will you view Iraq?
Barzani -
There will be a distinguished
relationship with Iraq when this is achieved.
Awsat- The Kurdish youths with whom I met at
universities and on the street talk about their
right to have an independent state. How does the
political leadership of the Kurdish people view this
issue?
Barzani -
As a Kurdish citizen, I have the
same ambitions and hopes, but the current situation
and reality dictate that we should enlighten the
Kurdish people about the true international and
regional situation. We call for a democratic
solution to every part of Kurdistan in accordance
with its special status. Raising the slogan of
establishing a Kurdish state or the republic of
Kurdistan should not be done through violence. We
should not resort to violence. If the concerned
countries resort to violence, they will fail in
destroying the Kurdish nation as they failed in the
past. Therefore, there must be a common language of
understanding in accordance with the conviction of
the two sides. I hope this will materialize soon. I
think every Kurdish citizen has the right to speak
freely about his aspirations for the establishment
of a Kurdish state as part of the people's right to
self-determination.
Awsat- The Kurdish citizen, who is a
relentless fighter, used to keep his weapon with
him. Have you said goodbye to arms today?
Barzani -
Under no circumstances have we
carried arms to commit aggression or attack others.
Throughout history, Kurdish weapons have been
defensive and not offensive. Even the dagger, which
is a symbol for the Kurds, is for self-defense and
not for attacks on others. I do not think we will
one day carry arms to attack anyone, but we will
keep defensive weapons for ever and this is our
right. The Kurdish citizen remembers the executions,
killings, tortures, Al-Anfal (Kurdish genocide in
Iraq), and other practices by the former regime. I
hope none will blame him. Despite the attacks and
injustice done to the Kurds, have you ever heard
that a Kurd blew up a car or detonated a bomb in an
Arab city? I challenge anyone to say so. I also ask:
Has a captured soldier ever been killed in
Kurdistan? During the 1991 uprising, tens of
thousands of the Iraqi army personnel surrendered
but none was harmed. On the contrary, we gave them
the choice of staying, going to any foreign country,
or returning to their homes. Not a single Iraqi
soldier was harmed. The Kurdish families opened
their houses for the captives. This makes me proud
of the Kurdish people. After 1991, I took greater
pride in belonging to this nation. I was afraid the
Kurdish people would take revenge upon the first
opportunity, but they did not do that. They adopted
the culture of tolerance and reconciliation. This is
the right path.
Awsat- Are there Kurdish fears of the Arabs
of Iraq today?
Barzani -
No, there were fears of the regimes
which ruled Iraq. These regimes committed crimes
against the Kurdish people, but we did not hold the
Arab people of Iraq responsible for what happened in
Kurdistan. The rulers who ruled Iraq were the ones
to blame.
Awsat- You do not visit Baghdad much. Do the
circumstances of your work here prevent this or
there are other reasons?
Barzani -
My visits to Baghdad are not few.
On the contrary, I go to Baghdad whenever needed and
I will continue to do so. My responsibilities are,
however, known here. What I do here is also in the
interest of Iraq. For example, before the formation
of the government I spent 50 days in Baghdad where
we prepared for the government formation. Also I was
there during the discussions held on the
constitution. I did not fail to visit Baghdad.
Awsat- US Ambassador Paul Bremer said in his
book that when he asked you to participate in the
Governing Council you told him you hated going to
Baghdad. How true is this?
Barzani -
This is an inaccurate and incorrect
statement.
Awsat- Those who believe in the centrist
liberal secular current consider you one of the
leaders of this non-sectarian current. How do you
support this current under the sectarian offensive
and quota system?
Barzani -
We strongly support this current,
but it must assert itself, put its house in order,
unify its ranks, and restore its prestige and
strength away from division. We are ready to provide
it with all types of support. I stress that we
strongly support this current, but our support will
not be enough unless the current reorganizes itself,
holds out, and defends its position.
Awsat- How did you agree on the issue of
sectarian quotas?
Barzani -
Actually, we did not agree but this
is the reality we are living. This does not mean
that this is the solution to the problem, but it is
the reality we are living.
Awsat- Do you think the bad security
situation in Basra will influence the situation in
Kurdistan?
Barzani -
Anything that happens in any part
of Iraq will certainly reflect on Kurdistan. But if
you mean direct influence, then there is none.
Awsat- What are your ambitions about the
future of the Kurdistan Region?
Barzani -
The almighty God has bestowed on
the region all forms of wealth like pure water,
fertile soil, minerals, and beautiful nature. What
is more important is that there are human
qualifications. We want to make up for what we
missed and lead all of Iraq if we can, and the
Kurdistan Region if this is not possible, toward the
highest development and progress. We will benefit
from the experience of Dubai. Our ambition is even
to do better than Dubai because we have a beautiful
nature and this is a blessing from God.
Awsat- Have Arab and foreign investments
started to play their role in the Region?
Barzani -
Yes, but what has been achieved
does not rise to the level of our ambitions. We are
at the start of the road.
Awsat- We have not seen any foreign forces in
the Kurdistan Region.
Barzani -
Praised be God, we do not need
foreign forces to protect our areas. Besides, the
peshmerga liberated the areas of Mosul, Kirkuk,
Himrin, and Khanaqin before the arrival of the US
forces in 2003. Our forces entered Mosul and Kirkuk
before the arrival of the US forces.
Awsat- Due to the bad security situation in
Iraq, many Arab families come to Kurdistan. What is
the situation of these families here?
Barzani -
The government departments were
instructed to extend all facilities and assistance
to these families. But this is not the solution.
There should be no collective exodus from southern
and central Iraq to Kurdistan. The situation must be
addressed so that these families will not be forced
to leave their homes and seek other places. When
they need us, however, we will be at their service.
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