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Dr.Mahmud Othman interview on Radio Free
Europe
3.3.2006
By Kathleen Ridolfo |
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RFE/RL interviewed Kurdish
parliamentarian Mahmud Othman on March 2 to ask
about political developments in Iraq following a
decision by Sunni, Kurdish, and secular political
groups to ask the Shi'ite-led United Iraqi Alliance
(UIA) to withdraw Ibrahim al-Ja'fari's nomination as
prime minister.
RFE/RL: What is the situation now in Iraq? We
heard that the Sunnis and the Kurds will ask the
Shi'a to nominate another candidate to the
premiership.
Othman: That's
right. We, the Kurdistan Coalition List, and the
Sunni list [Iraqi Accordance Front] and Dr. [Iyad]
Allawi's list, the Iraqi National List, we have
asked the Shi'ite alliance list to nominate another
candidate because we think it's not easy to have
another few years with Mr. al-Ja'fari. And with our
past experience and with all the...we have no
reservations. That's right, we have asked
officially, all three of us, and also the list of
Salih al-Mutlaq [Iraqi Front for National Dialogue]
is also supporting this. |
Dr.Mahmud Othman |
So, almost all the lists except the Shi'ite list
have asked for this, not because they have anything
personal with [al-Ja'fari]. They think that he will
continue the same policy as he had before, and
before as the prime minister he failed to solve the
country's problems, and now again, when the other
lists don't agree [with him], then I think it will
be difficult for him to succeed and for us to work
with him.
We think the Shi'ite list has the right to -- of
course -- appoint someone to be prime minister
[because] they are the biggest list. But, they
should consult; they should have consulted other
lists when doing this. Last year, when Mr. al-Ja'fari
was a candidate for prime minister, all the UIA
list...they supported him. This year, it's not the
same -- half have supported him, half have supported
another one [Adil Abd al-Mahdi]. So, [al-Ja'fari]
doesn't have a strong position within his own list
also.
RFE/RL: Did you have any response yet from
the UIA, either formally or informally?
Othman: We are
waiting. We just presented this today, so we don't
expect on the same day to have an official response.
We are waiting, and we will see what will happen.
RFE/RL: If they disagree, and Mr. al-Ja'fari's
nomination is put to a vote in parliament, do you
think that some of the Shi'a will vote against his
nomination?
Othman: I am
sure of that because already within his own list,
half of the list voted against him [in an internal
UIA vote (see "RFE/RL Newsline," February 13,
2006)]...so that's quite possible. And there's
another possibility; if they insist on [al-Ja'fari]
and they bring him, then the other lists, all of
them together could form a bloc which is bigger than
the UIA. They could then have their own prime
minister.
RFE/RL: Some media reported today that the
Sunnis, the Kurds, and perhaps Mr. Allawi's list
were considering forming a bloc in the parliament.
Is this true?
Othman: No, we
in the Kurdistan Coalition List, we are not having a
bloc, against the UIA or with the UIA against the
others and...that if things develop in a way that
[the UIA] insists on Mr. al-Ja'fari, then we may
have a parliamentarian bloc just to vote on a new
prime minister and vote against al-Ja'fari. So it's
possible, but I think, I hope that the UIA will be
cooperative and take into consideration the role of
all these lists [objecting to al-Ja'fari] and revise
their decision. That's the best way to do it, that's
democratic. Anyway, [al-Ja'fari] has now 64 MP votes
out of 275, so he couldn't make a good prime
minister...
RFE/RL: As a Kurd and a parliamentarian, do
you feel that the Shi'ite list could retaliate
against the Kurds later because of this?
Othman: No, I
don't think so. Maybe some people; I suppose al-Ja'fari
would not be happy about it. But many within his own
list are not supporting him.... Besides, we in
Kurdistan are unhappy, especially now after [al-Ja'fari's]
visit to Turkey [on February 28]. We are very
unhappy about this because he made this visit
without telling the president, without telling the
assembly, without telling even the foreign minister,
which is just unbelievable.
And, whatever discussions between Turkey and the
Iraqi government without the Kurds being in it...we
are suspicious because the Turkish policies are
negative towards the Kurdish issue. That's why this
has raised a lot of dissatisfaction [among] the
population in Kurdistan. And [Kurds] think that if
[al-Ja'fari] is going this way, than he will not
implement Article 58 [of the constitution pertaining
to Kirkuk] and the same old story will start again.
RFE/RL: Mr. al-Ja'fari, when he was in Turkey
said that he will implement the articles of the
constitution pertaining to Kirkuk to the letter.
Othman: No, we
don't believe him. It's a matter of faith and
belief. If it's true, why didn't he take any Kurd
with him [to Turkey]? Even the Foreign Minister [Hoshyar
al-Zebari] wasn't with him. What does he have to
hide from us? He took some [Iraqi] Turkomans with
him, and some others. He didn't take any Kurdish
minister with him, which is amazing, really -- as if
he has something very important between him and
Turkey to hide from the Kurds. We are suspicious
about...we don't believe what he says. He could say
anything but whether he will implement it or not, we
are suspicious.
RFE/RL: President Jalal Talabani's response
to this trip was to say that any agreements
concluded by al-Ja'fari would not be legally binding
under Iraqi law.
Othman: That's
right, because his government is a caretaker
government. Usually, a caretaker government is not
authorized to do these things. Secondly, the country
is in blood -- every day we have tens of people who
are killed. The security situation is very much
deteriorating. At this stage instead of...being
responsible for security, [al-Ja'fari's] leaving the
country like this and going abroad -- [it] is not
appropriate. I think none of these responsible
[leaders] should go abroad now. They should be here
solving the security and political problems inside.
RFE/RL: Muqtada al-Sadr's support was one of
the key reasons that Mr. al-Ja'fari was nominated by
the UIA. As you know, he holds a lot of power as far
as the street. Do you think that these tensions are
going to spill over more than they have in the past
week? Do you expect a big reaction on the streets?
Othman: No, I
don't think so. Even if there is a reaction it will
be...you know the people on the streets...may be a
bit dissatisfied with all politicians, including the
president, the prime minister, all of us because we
haven't solved their problems. [Iraqis] are
suffering from every sort of problem, the security
situation is very bad, and they think that...for the
politicians to just work out their government, or
solve their problems...so I think maybe there are
people who will show their feelings against this
delay in the political process...not for any
particular one or against any particular one but
maybe they are unhappy about all these delays.
RFE/RL: Do you expect that it will take much
longer now to form the government?
Othman:
Unfortunately, sometimes things come up and they
take more time. For example, [the February 22
bombing of the Shi'ite] shrine in Samarra, when it
was destroyed, and then the reactions came in
attacks on mosques here and there.... This has
delayed the political process of course...but that's
what's going on in Iraq, the reality. As far as the
political things are concerned, I think it's better
to have a little delay and then have a decent prime
minister and a government than going into a
government where the prime minister is under threat
and their will be problems in between [parties],
they don't trust each other...because maybe then the
results will be more negative if you just go in with
all the problems without solving them. It's better
to wait a bit...than going into [a government] in
which you don't believe in. That's the problem that
one has to talk about and think about.
RFE/RL: Because of the structure of the
parliament, in order to approve any nominee in
parliament, they need 184 votes [two-thirds
majority].
Othman: But,
it's not two-thirds for everything. When you choose
the president and his two vice presidents, we need
[a] two-thirds vote. But that's only in the first
round. If in the first round you don't get [a]
two-thirds vote, then in the [next] round, you [only
need] an absolute majority -- that's the
constitution. The same goes for the prime
minister.... So, I think those things are not a big
obstacle.
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