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RFE/RL Iraq analyst Kathleen Ridolfo interviewed
the Kurdistan Regional Government's (KRG)
representative to the United Kingdom, Bayan Sami
Abdul Rahman, on 4 May, in response to an article on
corruption in Kurdistan in "RFE/RL Iraq Report" on 2
May. Excerpts from the interview follow:
RFE/RL: When we're talking about corruption
in the KRG...is there any mechanism in place [to
hold officials accountable for their actions]?
Abdul Rahman:
There are mechanisms in place in the sense that
there are laws for example, there are laws that
govern how the media is run, trade unions, political
parties. There are laws that protect the rights of
minorities, the freedom of expression. So, there are
all these laws that govern different aspects of the
system and daily life, if you like, in the Kurdistan
region. These laws together can be said to be
holding the government accountable.
RFE/RL: But in practice, are they enforced?
Has there been any prosecution of government of
government officials for example, over issues of
corruption?
Abdul Rahman: I
don't know if there have been specific prosecutions
of government officials over corruption, per se. It
depends on what you mean by corruption. People use
this word all the time. If you mean corruption
generally to mean using your post or power for
personal gain, there have been prosecutions in
Kurdistan for people breaking the law, yes.
RFE/RL: And those were government officials?
Abdul Rahman:
Among them, yes. But you know, there are people in
all walks of life who are prosecuted for breaking
the law.... There is corruption in the Middle East
generally, and the Middle East unfortunately isn't
alone in that either. But one thing I would say is
that the perception of corruption is probably far
worse than the rate of corruption itself. That in
itself is a problem...perhaps the message isn't
really getting through to people that we are doing
these things. I think that's probably where we
really have failed. We need to be much stronger and
much clearer in delivering the message that we are
coming down on corruption and that we are stamping
it out.
RFE/RL: One of the criticisms we often hear
from people in Kurdistan is that if they are not
part of a party, then they have very little room as
far as opening a business or establishing an NGO.
And they say without party membership, they cannot
navigate through the bureaucracy of the Kurdish
administrations.... They feel like they can't move
forward or undertake any kind of entrepreneurial
enterprise unless they are a member of a party.
Abdul Rahman:
That's really not the case. Kurdistan does give
plenty of room for people with independent views to
speak. For example, in the Kurdistan National
Assembly, there are many members of parliament who
are independent, who don't belong to any political
party. We have a media, which admittedly is run
mainly by the two political parties [the Kurdistan
Democratic Party (KDP) and the Patriotic Union of
Kurdistan (PUK)] but we [also] have some elements of
an independent media and that's growing. There are
NGOs. Again, many of them have been set up with the
help of the Kurdistan government or with the help of
members of political parties. But these things need
years to develop. Kurdistan is a democracy that's
been running since 1992 when we had our first
democratic elections...but 1992, that's actually not
that long ago when you compare it with democracy in
Britain, which has been thriving for quite a few
centuries. It will take time for these NGOs, for the
media, for these organizations to become emboldened
and to really take the bull by the horns.
RFE/RL: If we set 1992 as a [starting point],
that's 13 years. Civil-society development is one of
the first markers of [democratic] development in any
country. And to say after 13 years, "Well, there's
still no independent NGOs, for example, operating in
Kurdistan," I would say that's a setback [to
development] or that is a problem.
Abdul Rahman:
I'm not sure that there are no independent NGOs
operating in Kurdistan. There are some independent
NGOs. But the majority have been helped by the
government or by one of the political parties.
That's one point. Secondly, the Kurdistan Regional
Government is very aware of the fact that the
democracy that we have is a fledgling democracy, and
we never pretend that it's a perfect democracy. Part
of the policy of the Kurdistan Regional Government
is capacity building. That means building people's
ability to run NGOs, to join trade unions, to have
an independent media. Part of the democratization
process is to build the capacity of our people, to
build their skills, and training. Because of that,
or as part of that strategy, the Kurdistan Regional
Government is trying to develop relationships with
organizations in Europe, in the United States, in
other countries around the Middle East that have a
democracy in place.
For example, we recently had a group of British
trade unions come to Kurdistan. They were helped in
their visit to Kurdistan by the Kurdistan Regional
Government, [which] organized the entire tour for
them, allowed them to meet whoever they wanted to
meet.... So, the Kurdistan Regional Government is
very aware of the need to progress, to deepen the
fledgling democracy that we have, and we're doing
our best.
RFE/RL: So you would deny that if there's an
independent Kurdish individual who wants to [avoid]
any political affiliation and start a civil-society
organization, they will have a problem in doing so?
Abdul Rahman: If
they come up with a coherent plan. One of the
problems that we have is that many people come up
with ideas, whether it's a business idea, whether
its an idea for establishing an NGO, but their idea
might not be as mature as it should be, not as
developed as it should be, so they don't get the
help that they want.
RFE/RL: But is it the government's place?
Abdul Rahman:
The immediate reaction is that "We're not being
helped because we don't belong to a political party.
We're not being helped, because I'm not so-and-so's
cousin, or uncle."
RFE/RL: But do you think that it's the
government's place to step in and say that this
person who wants to establish a civil-society
organization is [qualified] or not to do so.... Is
it really the government's place to interfere in an
enterprise?
Abdul Rahman: I
agree with you...and it's part of the Kurdistan
Regional Government's policy to have free enterprise
and to encourage these organizations that will help
establish, and not only establish but deepen the
roots of democracy in Kurdistan. This is our stated
aim, and we are doing the best that we can. But if
people are saying that they have not been helped or
that they have had stumbling blocks in establishing
an NGO, or an organization in Kurdistan, it may
sometimes be just because their plans weren't mature
enough, and maybe they need to think again....
RFE/RL: You mentioned the media in Kurdistan
several times and I'm wondering if you can comment
on the control over the media by the regional
governments and in particular, the lack of dissent
that we see in the Kurdish press.... We don't see a
lot of dissent coming from inside Kurdistan, from
local media.
Abdul Rahman:
First of all, I agree that perhaps the media based
overseas are more critical of the parties or the
government in Kurdistan. I think that this is due to
two factors. One is the Kurdish Diaspora...have been
fortunate enough...to live in the West where they
have been able to see a mature media, [from] living
in democratic societies and they have learned from
that and they're applying what they have learned to
the situation in Kurdistan and that's why we have
these websites that can be very, very, critical of
the Kurdish parties and the Kurdish system. And
there is no problem with that. We have absolutely no
problem with that in Kurdistan.
The second point I would like to make regarding that
is many people in Kurdistan now have access to the
Internet, so it's not the case that the Kurds of
Iraq will only see the Kurdish media. Many Kurdish
people, particularly young people, are very Internet
savvy, and they will get onto these websites and
they will read them, and they will read other
websites, they will read the Arab, and Turkish, and
Iranian-language websites as well....
RFE/RL: On the issue of dissent, when we
speak with people inside Kurdistan, many people tell
us that it's not acceptable to criticize for
example, [KDP head] Mas'ud Barzani. Actually, people
argue that in the PUK-controlled areas, it's OK to
criticize [PUK head] Jalal Talabani.... But in the
KDP-controlled areas, it is not acceptable...to
criticize Mas'ud Barzani in public.
Abdul Rahman:
That's not been the case whenever I've been in
Kurdistan. People have spoken their minds very
freely.... People do feel very loyal to the Kurdish
leadership, partly because Kurdistan has been under
attack throughout its history...so there is that
sense of loyalty, of wanting to be loyal to your
party, to your tribe, to your group, if you like.
There is that element of loyalty there, and there is
that element of people being deferential, that
people in the West just don't have.
RFE/RL: The people that I have spoken to
myself in Kurdistan have told me that it's not a
case of being deferential to the party, it's that
they feel fearful that if they speak against Barzani,
for example, in public, that there will be
repercussions or some kind of adverse [action taken
against] them.
Abdul Rahman:
They may have said that to you, but as I've said,
whenever I've been in Kurdistan, people have spoken
very freely, so I really can't comment any more on
that.
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