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* The secret lies in the positive developments in
the past two years with regard to the conditions in
Iraq, in general, and Kurdistan, in specific, in
addition to the wide-scale international recognition
of our cause. Our interior political and economic
conditions are gradually improving. We have now
become more hopeful and confident in the new future
of Iraq. This makes me feel the happiness that you
notice and I believe that you have the same feeling.
- To what extent do you see that your personal
ambitions have been achieved with these positive
developments?
* My ambitions are the ambitions of all Iraqi
people, in general, and the Kurdish people in
specific. I believe that issuing a permanent
constitution is a very significant step. Despite the
fact that it has not achieved all our ambitions, it
includes a great portion of my ambitions and the
ambitions of all Iraqis, who are looking forward to
a democratic federal system. Certainly, someone's
ambitions can not be achieved at one shot. It is not
reasonable that all ambitions are achieved on a
single occasion, but I feel that a great percentage
of my ambitions have been achieved, at present.
- In Kurdistan region, you will issue a special
constitution for the region. Personally, I believe
that it would be a much more developed constitution
than the permanent Iraqi constitution, which has
just been approved. How can we balance between two
constitutions in one country, when some of their
articles contradict?
* The Iraqi constitution allows the constitutions of
regions to comply with the special conditions of the
regions and express them. There would be balance,
but there is also a great range for the regional
constitution to express the reality of the region.
- After approving the permanent constitution, which
established the federal system in Iraq, the visit of
Amr Mousa, Secretary-General of the Arab League to
Kurdistan, and your own official visit, as the
president of Iraqi Kurdistan region to the biggest
two countries in the world, we can say that the
federation was a major demand of yours, as you have
obtained plain local, Arab and international
recognition. Do you expect that this would enhance
the Kurdish National Movement that is calling for
deciding on destiny to press you, as leadership, for
practicing the right of deciding on destiny and
announce independence?
* The Kurdish people are free in expressing their
opinions. I believe that they have a right to demand
for deciding on destiny. I consider the issue of
independence as follows: Fear; the Kurds' fear of
being exposed to penalty or punishment when talking
about independence, should disappear. In addition,
the fear of others towards the Kurds' call for
deciding on destiny and independence should also
disappear. This call is not a crime. Nevertheless,
we do not take independence as a motto at present.
The Referendum Movement is an independent popular
movement, which has the right to say whatever it
desires. Meanwhile, the political leadership should
make the Kurdish people aware of what can be
achieved under this specific historical situation
and separate it from the ambitions on the long run.
- Through the warm welcome that you received at the
White House, we noticed that it aroused
conservations on behalf of Turkey. How do you
explain this reaction?
* Until now, I have not encountered what can be
considered as an official reaction from the Turkish
party. What we heard is quoted from the Turkish
press, which we know that much of it does not have
the credibility. Nevertheless, there is no violation
against anyone in Iraq or abroad in what we did or
what happened. What we did was within the framework
of the Iraqi constitution, which has been recently
approved.
- Do you expect that Turkey practices some
provocations?
* I do not believe that this would occur.
- Are they re-arousing the issue of the Kurdistani
Workers Party?
* This issue has been there for too long. It would
remain unless a political solution for it is
accomplished.
- How big is this problem? Is it true that there is
a great number of fighters in Iraqi Kurdistan, who
are launching attacks against Turkey from there?
* No. This is so much exaggerated. There are very
remote areas in the Iraqi-Turkish-Iranian borders'
triangle that no transportation can reach. They
might contain bases, but their major presence is
inside Turkey itself.
- At a certain time you have suffered from them, not
only turkey?
* Yes, that was at a certain point in the past, but
the issue is not totally political. It is a reaction
to a wrong policy against existing people. There are
indications for a political solution. There is
information stating that the Turkish government is
thinking of such a solution. In case this government
actually adopts such a solution, we would be ready
to cooperate with it in order to reach a good
result.
- How do you visualize such a solution?
* First of all, the recognition of the existence of
the Kurdish people and reaching understanding with
the political movements and figures that represent
the Kurdish people in Turkey. We and the EU can help
reach reasonable solutions that do not threaten the
security, unity and independence of Turkey.
Actually, there are no Kurdish movements, including
the Kurdistani Workers Party, which are currently
calling for dividing Turkey. There is no danger
against Turkey's security.
- Does this mean that you can utilize your relations
with the Turkish Kurdish parties to reach
understanding with Ankara?
* Certainly.
- In Syria, indications of the possibility of
releasing some pressure in the Kurdish case have
been issued. What is your opinion about that?
* What I heard was that the Syrian government has
expressed its readiness to return the nationality to
those who have been deprived from it in 1962-1963.
- Do you consider this as a positive development?
* It is of the irony of fate that nationality is
taken away from a citizen then returned to him. This
is a favor
- Despite the many positive developments in the
region, there are still two governments running it.
Isn't it yet due time for unity?
* This would happen soon. We have taken many big
unification steps. We unified the parliament and the
electoral slates. We have achieved the presidency of
the region and unified the Kurdish representation in
the central government. The issue needed some time
due to the precipitates of the past. We do not want
to announce something and then be faced with what
hinders its application in a while. We want to
radically remove all barriers or obstacles and then
announce it. There are no current political
obstacles for unity, expect for technical ones. In
addition, we have totally ignored our interior
affairs in the past three months. All efforts were
concentrating on the issues of the constitution and
referendum. In the coming period, we shall
concentrate more on our local affairs.
- It is clear that the Kurdistani alliance is
extremely disappointing regarding the idea of
alliances within the framework of the government
with the United Iraqi Coalition, as the coalition
and its governmental team have not been committed to
the governmental partnership agreement, especially
the Prime Minister. Are you thinking about a new
alliance with the coalition? Are there any new
conditions for avoiding the repetition of current
experiment?
* We are waiting for the electoral events. From the
beginning, the current alliance has been a temporary
one relating to the interim period, which ends at
the execution of the new elections. After these
elections, we shall have a new situation. Certainly,
any alliance, whether with the Coalition or any
other slate, would be much clearer.
- What would your conditions in the coming period
concentrate on?
* Democracy and the issue of Kirkuk. We shall be
committed to the rights and democratic freedom all
over Iraq, in addition to reaching a radical
solution for the issue of Kirkuk, based on what is
agreed upon and what has been legally decided.
- How far is the issue of Kirkuk significant for
you?
* It is a very significant issue and was the reason
for the eruption of fighting between the Kurdish
movement and the former Iraqi governments. The major
and first reason for the eruption of fighting was
the inflexibility of the successive regimes with
regard to Kirkuk issue. There was a comprehensive
program for the Arabization of Kirkuk by expelling
the Kurds and bringing Arabs to reside there
instead. After the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime,
it was supposed to launch an immediate solution for
this problem. We have expressed so much flexibility
during the drafting of the state administration
code. We have managed to draft an article that
became well-known, which is article 58. According to
what is sated in this article, the situation should
be naturalized, not only in Kirkuk but also in other
regions such as Khaneqein, Al Shaikhan, Makhmour and
others. The article is clear. It states the
naturalization of the situation in these regions and
then conducting a census followed by a referendum.
In the light of the referendum the density of this
region shall be decided. We are in favor of the
solution. In the constitution, a time limit has been
set for executing this article, which is the end of
2007. We shall wait and cooperate for the execution
of this article in full. This is what we are
insisting on. In case this article is executed,
there would be no problem and by all means, Kirkuk
would remain as an Iraqi city, such as Erbil, Dahuk
and Sulaimaniyah.
- Regardless of geography, what are the social and
political consequences that can evolve from the
remaining of Kirkuk issue without a solution, in
your opinion?
* The lack of solving the issue or delaying the
solution would create many problems and has very
insalubrious consequences. It might cause a clash or
dispute between two neighbors and fighting between
full districts, parties, clans and ethnic groups.
- Hasn't the current government taken any steps in
this respect, as an application of the governmental
partnership agreement?
* Actually the federal government has not yet
fulfilled its promises and commitments in this
regard. This is a very crucial issue and we can
never accept that the government leaves this issue
to time. The government should fulfill its
commitments towards the issue of Kirkuk, as we have
agreed upon. We are not demanding that Kirkuk
becomes a Kurdish city, but want it to be a model
city of racial, religious and sectarian brotherhood
under joint administration. To achieve that things
have to be returned to normal first.
- In what condition can the Kurds find themselves
oppressed to demand for separation and independence?
* In case a civil war erupted between Shiaas and
Sunnis, the Kurds would have no alternative apart
from independence. Nevertheless, if the two parties
remained committed to the constitution, we shall
also remain committed and would maintain it.
- How did you consider the call for establishing a
federation of nine provinces in the south?
* We are in favor of the federation, whether in two,
three or nine provinces. The issue is left to the
residents of the provinces to decide on their
destiny. The federation is what shall keep us united
within the framework of the one Iraq. The Sunnis
cannot monopolize the government any more and
neither can the Shiaas. We believe that the
residents are the ones to decide on how to
administer themselves. We shall support the Shiaas
if they desired to have one or more federal regions
and the same applies to the Sunnis. It is not right
to ban any party from creating a federation. This is
a wrong concept and belongs to the same mentality
that believes that one race or one sect controls the
whole of Iraq. This is unacceptable. During our
meetings with the Arab Sunnis, we told them that
what some of you are suggesting regarding accepting
the federation for the Kurds and not the others is a
wrong situation.
- What are the achievements of your tours in the
United States and Britain?
* The achievement is Iraqi and Kurdistani at the
same time. I did not go only as a representative of
Kurdistan region, but the entire Iraq. I have
introduces what relates to the entire Iraq. There
were great welcome and concern and we have received
confirmations of continuing cooperation and support
for the Iraqi people for the purpose of achieving
democracy in Iraq. President Bush has strongly
stressed that his country shall never leave us alone
and that they would remain by our side until
achieving full victory against terrorism and
terrorists, in addition to achieving democracy.
Naturally, it is a significant matter to hear such
words from the President of the United States and
not an employee in the administration. In fact, I
have heard many confirmations from him, which makes
us feel comfortable.
- The Kurdish movement was suspicious about the
United States since 1975. Do you believe that such
suspicions have disappeared now, after the visit?
* The truth is that I have found President Bush a
man of principles, who is brave and keeps his
promises.
- Just like yourself?
* (he laughed and Dr. Fuad Hussein, the head of his
divan, interrupted saying: President Bush said that
to President Barzani, while receiving him at the
White House. He said that he is a man of principles
who respects his promises, like President Barzani.)
Personally, I feel comfortable regarding the
American promises. I have no more doubts as long as
President Bush is in power.
- And in London?
* We have received the same thing. Mr. Blair gave us
similar confirmations. I am also very comfortable
about the results of the meeting with Mr. Blair. He
stressed the same issues.
- What promises have they given?
* They promised us that they would remain by the
Iraqi people until they have victory against
terrorism and achieve the democratic course, in
addition to respecting the opinions and choice of
the Iraqi people.
- What about the reconstruction?
* They also promised to offer full support. Of
course, this mainly relies on us. The coming
government should have a program, and achieve some
gains and field victory on terrorism. For how long
shall we rely on foreign forces for maintaining our
security?
- How can the coming government achieve that. What
is the necessary political program that it should
adopt?
* There should be a strong government run by a
powerful figure. The persons in charge of the
ministries should also be powerful and patriotic.
They should not turn the ministries into party ones.
The Prime Minister and the ministers should be
committed to a comprehensive program and an internal
system. A minister should not work as he wishes.
Sometimes, half of the ministers are abroad and the
Prime Minister is not aware or that the Prime
Minister leaves, accompanied with half of the
ministers, while the other ministers are not aware.
There should be harmony within the government. Until
now, there is no harmony within the current
government. The coming government should have
harmony and be committed.
- What characteristics do you believe that the
coming government should have?
* We believe that the coming government should be
coalition as the conditions in the country
necessitate that. We hope that no sects or groups or
parties take the electoral events as a justification
for the creation of a dictatorship. There should be
agreement.
Al Sharq Al Awsat
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